April 10, 2001                         updated Aug 15, 2016

Organ Transplants


Sub-headings:
Organ Transplants and Donations
An Ethical Dilemma
A Medical Curiosity/Phenomenon
The Unthinkable!
Washington Post Exposes Scandal
A Private Investigation Reveals
Is it OK?
More Tid-Bits from around      Jul 11 013
A Real Scary Story     Oct. 31, 013
Homeless Killed for Ogans    Aug 15 016

Related Articles

Organ Transplants and Donations
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There is nothing in the Bible that clearly or directly has an impact on whether organ transplants and donations are permissible or not. But there are Biblical precedents that might favor a particular side of the issue.

First, there are laws that deal with conflicts of interest. For instance, one could not bring in the hire (wages) of a prostitute to donate to the temple. Ill-gotten money was not appreciated in the Bible. The ends does not generally justify the means as many seem to believe.

One could not resort to prostitution or have their daughter resort to prostitution (Leviticus 19:29) to sustain their lives or the lives of their family. God can resurrect, so one need not place too much importance on sustaining their present earthly life by resorting to immoral activity. Better to die and be resurrected than to sin to continue living and lose out on everlasting life.

The danger as I see it is that money could become a significant and conflicting factor in transplants. People, in desperation to live, might offer some big money for an organ. Such money could encourage more unprincipled people/doctors or institutions/governments to classify a person as dead so they can make money performing the operation or make money selling the organ. They may harvest it out of criminals or kill innocent people for their organs. There are already allegations that such things are done in some countries. I will deal with that more shortly.



An Ethical Dilemma
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This has happened before. In the pioneering days of doctors exploring surgical anatomy by dissecting dead human corpses, they would pay certain low-lifes to rob graves. That was considered horrible by the general Christian ethic of the time so only low-lifes would do such a thing. So for a certain amount of money, these bums would dig up the most recent burials. But the money got to be good enough where these enterprising hoodlums decided they didn't need to wait for people to die but would kill people and present corpses that were remarkable specimens. A little too remarkable, in fact.

This came to be known as Burking because the bum who first started doing it had a last name of Burke. He got caught, I believe, when one of his victims was a well known and beautifully shaped prostitute in the area which others (the doctor's students) recognized.

The potential abuse is clearly possible with organs as well. People should never become just a bunch of spare parts for others and have their organs become so valuable that they are worth more dead than alive, regardless of wealth.

I also see the day coming when people will be able to sell the organs of their deceased love ones and why not? Everyone else makes money on them. The doctors and hospitals make fantastic sums of money on organ transplants. Why shouldn't the people who experienced the real loss be compensated as well. I think that fair. But then you know what will follow?

The insurance companies will step in and make you turn the organs over to them in order to receive the insurance coverage in the event the person had a life insurance policy. Insurance companies will use it as a way to recover much of their policy payment. They might even make a profit for after they obtain rights to organs, they could then begin charging fees for the organs which they would technically and legally own by virtue of their policy coverage! You will definitely see them charge and no one in medicine or industry will argue then about charging since they all profit from the lucrative trade and commerce. Ain't free enterprise grand? Insurance Companies should have no such right and never be allowed to gain such rights. They have been paid for that policy as they always have been, by the policy holder/s. The gain from the loss should be the family of the lost one. Consider the following on this issue.


 
A Medical Curiosity/Phenomenon
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Then there is some medical information that may also have a bearing on this. First, it is the discovery and assertions of Dr. Arthur Janov (http://www.primaltherapy.com), backed by remarkable physical tests and lab results; that memory in some form or fashion, is recorded/remembered at a cellular level throughout the body. Each cell contains a various number of remembered states depending on what takes place in the brain.

This phenomenon has been somewhat documented by doctors in general. Many transplant patients report having feelings of the other person after receiving an organ. They will often report new or changed tastes, habits, inclinations, and desires. This is a well documented fact.

My uncle, now dead, reported sensing other feelings, memories, and desires for new activities that just didn't feel like his. His first kidney was from his sister, my aunt. 8 or 10 years later he had another one from a complete stranger. This one left him feeling even more strange as the things he would feel were even more different and removed from his typical self and he found them much harder to understand; they were less familiar than before.

In fact, medical journals report that nearly 30% of heart transplant patients experience episodes of psychosis. That is a pretty serious event of the mind to write it all off as in the head only.

If it is true and I, myself, am persuaded that it is, then basically what we are doing is placing another person's flesh, their heart so to speak, into our own body. If they are a better person that may not be so bad. But what if they were a criminal or some other vile person? Who are we inviting into our souls, so to speak, to reside with us? Food for thought, isn't it? Would we want to corrupt our own flesh or donate our flesh and have it defiled and corrupted by someone else? I think I will pass on that one.

Now imagine that you don't want you flesh corrupted in the body of someone else. You do not want to donate your organs to anyone. But now insurance laws and government laws say they have a right to your organs or that they must have them in order for you to get the insurance pay off. Interesting little dilemma, isn't it? Your conscience is no longer free to do what you want.

Now possibly, part of the reason why God finds it undesirable for people to engage in loose promiscuous sexual relations, aside from pregnancy, could be disease and uncleanliness. You wouldn't have sex with a stranger but you will take them into your body, no questions asked? Right? Not me!

I see too many wicked things that can come from using people for spare parts. A human being is a scared thing. I am not sure that using it for spare parts is sanctioned. One would have to exercise their own conscience in the matter. But for me, it is an unacceptable practice. I will wait for a better life, an eternal one. It seems the much safer course.

 



The Unthinkable!
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It is alleged today, and I believe it, that China has on more than one occasion, killed prisoners in order to supply organs to those who have the means to pay for what they want and need. Why it only could have been a matter of time. If anyone ever read the book or saw the movie base on it, from perhaps the mid to late 70s, called "Coma," you will recall the nightmare scenario where the woman lead role, Dr. Wheeler ( Genevieve Bujold along with Mike Douglas ) discovers a bunch of people/bodies in a state of suspended animation, a coma, waiting for organs to be harvested. It might have even been a little bit of inspiration for "The Matrix" as well.

But that scenario seems much more possible now than ever before. And where are the abortion fanatics on this one??? I don't hear them and yet, maybe I should. Doctors now make determinations on how likely the patient is to survive. Why? If it is likely (but not absolutely certain) that the patient will die, then rather than let the organs go to waste, if the patient, or his guardian is willing to donate their organs, then they harvest them before death. Sounds a bit premature to me and what is there to assure us the doctors may not err on the side of eagerness to get those organs so they or their colleagues might make a few hundred thousand on a sweet organ transplant operation? Greed has always led to compromise with safety or anything else. It is not possible that it would not happen in this situation, either.

But it gets far worse. While we go about our day to day business and activities, there are those who spend a lot of money and labor and resources trying to integrate computer chips with an actual human brain, of course, simply to enhance human abilities and indeed, it might. But there is a more sinister possibility that exists, as well. They also want to extract human thoughts and memories. And indeed, if they can accomplish this ( They might have already done it by now. Allegations are that they have! ), it may even be possible to completely download or extract a person's entire brain content and personality makeup translated to digital data onto computer to retain till they either find a way to repair or reanimate their bodies or maybe find new bodies to have, a body transplant, if you will.

I suspect, as many who believe in or in some way practice "Life Extension" do, that aging and dying by aging may be solved fairly soon. And revitalizing and rejuvenating, for the elite, at least, will soon be upon us. I grant that being able to completely download or extract a person's memories and makeup is a bit more complicated, but . . . not impossible, either, and not likely all that far away. They are trying, you can be sure. But of course, these will be reserved for the elite only, you can bet.

I am not the first one to think of or suggest this. But I agree with the possibilities of the vision. Body transplants! Raise a person really good and then take over their bodies with new memories and brain patterns. Of course, Janov's research and findings that memories are stored all over the body and not just in the brain certainly complicates things enormously and could potentially impair or put body transplants out of practical reach. But consider that transplanting a brain of a primate, possibly a baboon, I can not recall for sure, has already been done. It is not that far out of reach. If they can think it, they can do it! And given that many people are killed all the time in order to accomplish many goals and obtain various results without a thought to the lives they are destroying, I believe this one is sure to happen. The research is being done. The morals have never been there. The madness of human kind know no limits! AS God said in Genesis 10:6 (RSV):

And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

God gave man an enormous intelligence. We have only to look around at what we have accomplished already to realize there is little we can not accomplish if we can first imagine it. Our only problem is in restraining our instinct and emotions which tend to push our intellect around. We can imagine anything but we have difficulty controlling and limiting ourselves. For some, for many, there are no limits and never have been. It is only time that will bring about the very worst. Ask yourself, are things better now than they were 40 or 50 years ago? Anyone older enough to be able to answer that would have to say, no! The unthinkable can only be a matter of time.

If there are going to be limits, and it is possible that we no longer can limit by means of democracy and the desire of the majority, then we need to stop this one right now. But I would suggest it has gone too far and can not be stopped now. Only God can stop it now. It is beyond us. We are the problem. We can not control ourselves. Only God can restore that sort of control which Adam lost for us in the Garden of Eden.


Washington Post Ponders Transplants
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The Doctors Who Are Redefining Life and Death - Washington Post
www.washingtonpost.com/cityguide


By William Saletan Sunday, October 5, 2008; Page B02

Think being the next president would be a brutal job? Imagine being a transplant surgeon. You can't tell the parents of a dying kid when to pull the plug, but you have to be there, ready, the minute he expires. You have to wait until he's dead, but not so long that his organs become useless. You can give him drugs to keep his organs healthy, but you mustn't technically revive him. And you can't remove and restart his heart until it's been declared kaput.

Pick up a recent issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, and you'll see the far edge of this tortured world. In the journal, doctors at Children's Hospital in Denver describe how they removed hearts from infants 75 seconds after they stopped. The infants were declared dead of heart failure, even as their hearts, in new bodies, resumed ticking.

 Is this wrong? We like to think that moral lines are fixed and clear: My heart is mine, not yours, and you can't have it till I'm dead. But in medicine, lines move. "Dead" means irreversibly stopped, and stoppages are increasingly reversible. And when life support ends, says one bioethicist, "not using viable organs wastes precious life-saving resources" and "costs the lives of other babies." Failure to take body parts looks like lethal negligence.

How can we get more organs? By redefining death. First we coined "brain death," which let us take organs from people on ventilators. Then we proposed organ retrieval even if non-conscious brain functions persisted. Now we have "donation after cardiac death," the rule applied in Denver , which permits harvesting based on heart, rather than brain, stoppage.

But stoppage is complicated. There's no "moment" of death. Some transplant surgeons wait five minutes after the last heartbeat; others wait two. The Denver team waited 75 seconds, reasoning that no heart is known to have self-restarted after 60 seconds. Why push the envelope? Because every second counts. Mark Boucek, the doctor who led the Denver team, says that waiting even 75 seconds makes organs less useful.

So how can death be declared based on irreversible heart stoppage when the plan is to restart that heart in a new body? Boucek offers two answers. First, even if the heart resumes pumping in a new body, it couldn't have done so in the old one. (That used to be true, but today, hearts can be restarted by external stimulation well after two or even five minutes.) Second, Boucek says the heart is dead because the baby's parents have decided not to permit resuscitation. In other words, each family decides when its loved one is dead. In a commentary attached to the Denver report, another ethicist proposes extending this idea -- letting each family decide not just whether to resuscitate but also at what point organs can be harvested. Brain death? Cardiac death? Persistent vegetative state? Death is whatever you say it is.

Robert Truog, an ethicist who supports the Denver protocol, says this redefinition of death has gone too far. Let's accept that we're taking organs from living people and causing death in the process, he argues. This is ethical as long as the patient has "devastating neurologic injury" and has provided, through advance directive or a surrogate, informed consent to be terminated this way. We already let surrogates authorize removal of life support, he notes. Why not treat donations similarly? Traditional safeguards, such as the separation of the transplant team from the patient's medical team, will prevent abuse. And the public will accept the new policy since surveys suggest we're not hung up on whether the donor is dead.

But down that road lies even greater uncertainty. How devastating does the injury have to be? If death is vulnerable to redefinition, isn't "devastating" even more so? The same can be asked of "futility," the standard used by the Denver team to select donors. Is it safe to base lethal decisions on the ebb and flow of public opinion, particularly when the same surveys show confusion about death standards? And can termination decisions really be insulated from pressure to donate? Even if each family makes its own choice, aren't we loosening standards for termination precisely to get more organs?

Modern medicine has brought us tremendous power. Boundaries such as death, heart stoppage and ownership of organs have guided our moral thinking because they seemed fixed in nature. Now we've unmoored them. I'm a registered donor because I believe in the gift of life and think that the job of providing organs falls to each of us. So does the job of deciding when we can rightly take them.


End of Article - My Comments begin

Be afraid, be very afraid. It is clear to me that there is no moral compass or boundaries in the medical profession and the more you know about this profession, the more one might be inclined to believe as I do, that they can not be trusted and they are up to no good. They have suppressed and blocked, in my opinion, near to at least 10 cancer cures and ways to prevent as well. Some of Most of these therapies are cheap, easy to administer, painless and very fast and thorough. I urge you all to buy this book:

Politics in Healing - The suppression and manipulation of American Medicine - Author: Daniel Haley
Copyright 2000 Potomac Valley Press, Washington DC


You'll never be the same once you read this book. To me, The level and depth of corruption in both medicine, government, and the pharmaceutical industry is sickening. You can not afford to be without this book. One of the most important purchases you could ever make. In order to protect yourself against an enemy, you first have to be aware that he exists and is your enemy and has his crosshairs on you. Otherwise, you are easy prey.


A Private Investigation Reveals
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I came across an account on the local news on TV, channel 6 WCSH, Portland Maine. A family who lives in Maine had a grown but still quite young daughter down in New Orleans (N.O.). She died at the hands of the LSU Hospital in N.O., due to, at the very least, indifference and incompetence. But I suspect a deliberate practice of just setting the poor aside and letting them die. But this young woman was mistaken for poor and a drug addict, when in fact she was not. But it looks to me like they just did not bother to care for her since they do not get money and maybe they would like to rid the place of poor people. I just saying. It may not be. I might be off my rocker and paranoid, right?

There may be much more to this scandal. I have not talked to the family enough about it yet. I hope to. The father (Michal) was hard at work investigating, as was the whole family. The young girls at home do most of the internet work for the parents. Mike went down to N.O. and right next to the hospital, he was likely killed with his car set on fire. That is the calling card of very nasty people who have a lot to cover up. I can not say much more without more knowledge.

But I can give you information that mother and wife of the late Michal has posted as she carries on the fight. What she has uncovered is fascinating in regards to Organ Transplants and how it is determined if someone is dead or not. It is very disturbing as is this whole issue of transplants and harvesting body parts. Teresa is the one who first posted the article just above from the Washington Post on the lack of definition and perhaps the impossibility of making a reasonable or comfortable determination. English is not her 1st language so you might detect some very minor evidences of that. But the truth comes through loud and painfully clear so she did her job quite well. So I turn this over to Teresa, a woman who has endured much and does us all an incalculable favor in letting us know what is going on. I personally thank her for her very noble efforts in this respect and wish her and her family sympathy and many good wishes. The colors of the text are her formatting.

http://teresaflisiuk.info/organ_tissue_harvesting.html

TERESA FLISIUK SPEAKING WITH MS. GENTRY IN THE MANNER OF THE TORTUROUS SMALL TALK - JUST TO GAIN THE INFORMATIONS. MS. GENTRY TALKED TO ME LIKE A SALE PERSON ON SOME SHOPPING CHANNEL. IT WAS BIZARRE AND PAINFUL...

Teresa
- Hallo.

MS. Gentry -

Teresa...

Teresa - Yes ma'm. 

S. Gentry - This is Sally Gentry from LOPA.     [{ LOPA has a website. www.lopa.org   They collect the organs for hospitals in Louisiana. }]

Teresa - What is, regardless of the hospital records, what is the reason that LOPA couldn't get involved in organ harvesting and tissue harvesting?


Gentry - OK, the reason we could not is because of the reason that the hospital gave us because of her death, that it was a bacterial infection and so we were not able to recover anything because that if someone has a bacterial infection then it can cause the organs and tissues to... can be infected, that as sick as people are waiting for transplants they would not be able to transplant.


Teresa - So something, I'm a little confused now in regard what you have told me and also in regard to the... if the patient dies on the ward, at intensive care unit and immediately after the patient's death the LOPA and specific code number and specific person, I don't remember now, is being called, just after and the assisting physician who was trying to revive my daughter is filling those papers for LOPA and for coroners then
I don't understand why would they notify LOPA at the first place if they knew there was an infection.

Gentry - OK, the reason why - in every state the hospitals are required to call
on any imminent or death that come in to the hospital, no matter what state that anyone lives in, they're required to call because at one point when Tommy Thompson was the head of Health and Hospitals the requirement by law and by... it was just adhered to by all the hospitals is they must call the procurement agencies in the particular state where a person has died.

Teresa -
Despite notifying the family and despite, I mean before they even notify the family?

Gentry - Generally yes
, many times the family because they did not know who to contact.

Teresa - They did. But ma'm can I ask you...

Gentry - Sure.

Teresa - What I am trying to understand is... why they were not, why they had not received her, why she had not been diagnosed prior to her death... with sepsis

Gentry - Well, the way that the law has been set up for all the people who are waiting for the transplant,OK, that the law set up to where every hospital, regardless of how an individual dies must be called in to the organ procurement agency in that state.
Now, if they come in to the hospital and they are already deceased then the agencies are not called but anyone who dies in any hospital this is requirement that they must have called in with the thought that perhaps it may be something that can possibly recover but not if there's is already a doctor that's, you know, diagnosed an individual then we do not contact the family because there's nothing that we can do as far as a recovery.

Teresa -
And who those organs go to - to the rich old people from young who are dying?

Gentry - No..., no..., only... if a person dies a brain death.

Teresa - Well, she was not declared brain dead.


Gentry -
Right.

Teresa - That's what is interesting, when she dies, when she's pronounced dead, approximately at
6.30 A.M., why she's still, why she's still, you know this quite delicate issue, why she remains at intensive care unit and is being removed from intensive care unit after 9 A.M.

Gentry - I... I don't know... the hospital


Teresa - Is it connected with LOPA?

Gentry - No mam, it would have to do with the hospital.

Teresa - But, you know, this is kind of delicate to other patients and personnel and to keep the body on the premises where the living people are being treated, right?

Gentry - I don't know ... what the hospital... I can't answer that because I don't know what the hospital's rules are, I mean, I don't know what point they may have been able to reach you... I don't know that...that... that's under what the hospital's regulation's are.

Teresa - No, I mean, I asked about something else, I'm asking about not whom to reach at this point... but
about from 6.30 to after 9 am the body remains at some facilities of the hospital, which was indicated an intensive care unit, and was not being removed from the facilities where the personnel, staff and the alive people are being treated.

Gentry - I don't know the answer to that... that again I don't know what the hospital's... I don't know what they... regulations on that...

Teresa - But on one flip of the coin you speak for the hospital and for something you had not told me originally, knowing the case, and on the other hand you just put this as only the hospital would have answered.

Gentry - Well, OK, let me try to explain it more clearly, I can only speak to... when I spoke with you Friday, I did not know for sure... what I did know with limited information that was provided to us by the hospital. Now, I don't know if she had said that to the emergency room staff, I do not know that, OK. So that's why I had to let you know I will call you back once I got the information of that was provided to us at the time. Now, I can only think about that information, but I cannot speak to everything that is involved with the hospital because we are not part of the hospital.

Teresa -
That's exactly what I wanted to ask, exactly, you just hit the right point of my concern. As an independent organization LOPA, shouldn't you have your independent data?

Gentry - The information we got... we are not a hospital,
the information we get when the hospital calls us when there is an imminent death and this is required by law for all hospitals in all states.

MOTHER: - O, so they called you!!! ... when there was imminent death. So they don't call after the person is actually deceased?

Gentry - No ma'm.

Teresa - A - H - A!


Gentry - So and the reason they called
an imminent death is, again this a requirement by the joint hospital commissions and the government, so if somebody is possibly able to be a donor that's why the agencies are called, but if they have something, I mean they have to call every imminent death, everyone regardless of how the person may be dying, OK. But when we respond is when a person generally is brain dead b y a car accident perhaps they had been shot, perhaps they had attempted to take their own life, that the body, the organs are still viable, they're still healthy but the brain has died.

Teresa - In this particular situation she was not declared brain dead.

Gentry - Right. She was not.


Teresa - But, one more time... I don't want to take so much of your time, but again you as LOPA organization do you have your independent documents?

Gentry -
The only documents that we have are her name and the information when the hospital called in to us. That's the only... because we do not go out and independently gather information...

Teresa - So you wouldn't mind if I would post one more question because in between receiving such information of imminent death, there must be some record, you should keep a record, there must be actual physical person who actually goes to the hospital (

Gentry sighs) or Lopa notifies someone who is... I mean, is this just being performed, that hospital performs this in case, in such case... particular hospital performs that for the LOPA or the LOPA has to provide their own physician?

Gentry - No, we do not, we take what the hospital's physician tells us, we don't have any independent, only
unless the again the person has been declared brain dead and the physician at the hospital where the person is has his nurse or her nurse call the imminent death in to what is called our referral line and if the doctor thinks that this person may possibly be a potential donor, we have to take the hospital's word that this person could possibly be a donor but when we're called the information in, such as they did with Blanka, the doctor had already have made his diagnosis of what it's happened for her from the information they gathered which was what we automatically call a rule-out, and it means we did not send anyone to the hospital.

Teresa - So what would be the reason to call particular person, specific representative of the organization, what would be the reason then...

Gentry - Because by law, the hospital's staff is required to call in the organ procurement agency whichever state...

Teresa - You told me this ma'm but what would be the reason since they would harvest the organs and tissue themselves and they make a decision if it is ... if it qualifies so to speak...

Gentry - OK, what happens is...

Teresa - What would be the role of a person who represents the LOPA?

Gentry - OK, at that point the person... if they went to the hospital to have recovered... is that what you asked me?

Teresa - Well, having said that hospital, you know, the rules you've told me about, you know, legal issues... but they are in the position to decide if the person qualifies for organ or tissue donation and if there is such an instance, the hospital would have been in charge of harvesting the tissue or...

Gentry - No, the hospital's not....

Teresa - I asked you if you have your own physician to be sent to do so.

Gentry - No, we do not have our own physicians,
we have nurses who go out, but we... we... transplant surgeons who come in and would do the recovery of the organs so that their patients that are listed on a transplant waiting list, they are separate from LOPA or any other organ recovery agency. Now, if the person is old...

Teresa - Is this... I'm sorry... You mentioned Tommy Thompson and I know who he is... was in the government, this is a federal law?

Gentry - Yes, yes.

Teresa - So since it comes from the government it is federal law right?

Gentry - Yes, yes and the people that we report to is the Federal Drug Administration, the Department of Health and Hospitals, the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, we have to report, all these people come in and look at all these records in every state to make sure that what is going on is according as how the law was put in to effect

Teresa - I have a question I am sorry that I keep you...

Gentry - No, it's OK. I can tell you this if you'd like additional information... do you use the computer?

Teresa - I'm trying. I'm not really a computer person.

Gentry - OK. But United Network of Organ Sharing is one of our designated agencies for everyone that is waiting for an organ transplant is listed according to state.

Teresa - I see...So if I wanted to find it where would I go?

Gentry - You would go to WNW.unos.org.

Teresa - OK, you know, I would like to ask you because you know how it functions... What are the chances... you know if you represent, if this is federal law, is the LOPA only serving the State of Louisiana ?

Gentry - Yes. Yes.

Teresa - And what would be the chances if I was a resident of Louisiana and I needed an organ, how... would you give me that organ?

Gentry - The way it outworks is, your doctor who would be a transplant surgeon would have you listed on the transplant waiting list and if we had a donor and your blood matched, your size of body matched, then there would be a possibility that then you would receive that organ.

Teresa - I just really wanted to exclusively know LOPA's record about my grandson and my daughter and I wanted you to distinctly, I wanted the distinction of your records, I know it has to be connected with a particular hospital with which you are dealing, you must have kept your own records, right?

Gentry -
The records that we have are not from us going out to the hospital but what the hospital has given to us. And we then have Blanka's name, we have her weight...

Teresa - If I paid... Would you be able to send me copies of these records.

Gentry - You don't have to pay... I'll be more than happy to...

Teresa -So I am entitled to those records...

Gentry - Yes you are because you are the legal next of kin.

End of Published Report

Revealing, no? Anyway, you can visit these 2 sites for more info relating to the inexcusable deaths of Michal and Blanka, and learn more about our glorious wonderful medical system in the greatest country in the world, right?. Oh, surely you can see the sarcasm dripping from that, can't you? 

www.teresaflisiuk.info
www.michalflisiuk.com



Expose From Natural News:

Global organ harvesting a booming black market business; a kidney harvested every hour
Sunday, June 03, 2012 by: J. D. Heyes
http://www.naturalnews.com/036052_organ_harvesting_kidneys_black_market.html

(NaturalNews) In this age of instant, mass communication, it's hard to cover up virtually anything, and yet there's one story that has yet to be told on a wide scale - how organ trafficking has ballooned into a global business and that the practice is so widespread, one organ is sold every hour.

That's according to the World Health Organization (WHO), which said recently in a report that there are new fears the illegal organ trade may once again be rising.

Here's the way the process is supposed to work, at least in the U.S.:
        According to the OrganDonor.gov Web site, which is operated by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the first part is for people to actually enroll as donors, and this generally happens on the state level. "Most often this happens when obtaining or renewing a driver's license or by going on-line for those state registries that have an Internet registration capacity," the site says.

At some point the donor is admitted to a hospital; most donors are victims of severe head trauma. When donors are thought to be near death and all lifesaving techniques have been exhausted and the donor/patient is still not responding, "a physician will perform a series of tests, usually on multiple occasions, to determine if brain death has occurred," says the HHS site. That test is usually performed by a neurosurgeon who must follow both state law and accepted medical practice.

Regulated and safe - as long as you're working within the system

Then, the hospital - in compliance with federal regulations - notifies a local organ procurement organization (OPO), giving the OPO information about the deceased to confirm his or her potential to be a donor. "If the patient is a potential candidate for donation, an OPO representative immediately travels to the hospital," HHS says.

Next, the OPO searches the state's donor database to see if the deceased signed up to become a donor and if so, that will serve as consent. If the deceased had not signed up as a donor the OPO will contact the next-of-kin to obtain consent. "When consent is obtained, medical evaluation will continue, including obtaining the deceased's complete medical and social history from the family," said HHS.

After more testing does not rule out the deceased as a donor, then the search begins for a recipient or, in many cases, recipients. This is done on a national level through the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network. When donors are found, the organs are transported to them, and surgeons transplant them.

Now, contrast that regulated, organized process with the illicit global organ trade, which has virtually no such protections and you can begin to see the health implications of operating outside the system.

Yet, many still do. According to WHO, an estimated 10,000 organs a year are not handled in that way; in fact, the organization says the rise in illicit organ trading comes on the back of a soaring rise in black-market kidney transplants.

Kidneys are in high demand

WHO says wealthy patients in developed nations are paying tens of thousands of dollars for a kidney to India-, China- and Pakistan-based gangs, who harvest them from desperate people for as little as a few hundred dollars.

Eastern Europe, the U.N.-based health organization says, is becoming fertile ground for black-market organs; recently the Salvation Army said it rescued a woman who had been brought to the United Kingdom to have her organs harvested.

The illicit kidney trade makes up 75 percent of the black-market organ trade, WHO says; experts say that is likely due to the diseases of affluence such as diabetes, high blood pressure and heart problems.

And, since there is such disparity between wealthy and poor countries, there isn't much chance the illicit trade will end anytime soon.

"The stakes are so big, the profit that can be made so huge, that the temptation is out there," Dr. Luc Noel, an official with WHO, told Britain's Guardian newspaper.

The processes for the orderly transplantation of organs are methodical and regulated for a reason: to ensure the health of the organs themselves and the patients who receive them. But the black market trade completely bypasses those protections.

WHO officials say they don't know how many of the more than 106,000 known organ transplants last year took place using black-market organs, but Noel thinks that figure could be as high as 10 percent.

Illegal organ trafficking has come to the U.S. as well

The United States, with its stringent organ transplant regulations, has not been completely immune from the vile business of illegal organ trafficking.

A New Jersey corruption probe in 2009 found that Levy Izhak Rosenbaum of Brooklyn "brokered the sale of black-market kidneys, buying organs from vulnerable people from Israel for $10,000 and selling them to desperate patients in the U.S. for as much as $160,000," the Associated Press reported.

"I am what you call a matchmaker," Rosenbaum said during a conversation that was being secretly taped by authorities. When asked how many organs he had trafficked, he answered, "Quite a lot."

While trafficking is on the rise, so too is the condemnation of it.

"The people who gain are the rich transplant patients who can afford to buy a kidney, the doctors and hospital administrators, and the middlemen, the traffickers," said Jim Feehally, professor of renal medicine at University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust, who said the key issue was one of exploitation.

Sources for this article include:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk

http://www.organdonor.gov/about/organdonationprocess.html

http://www.foxnews.com

http://www.nj.com

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036052_organ_harvesting_kidneys_black_market.html#ixzz1wmnXPjey


Check this out on Youtube:    
     Planned Parenthood Uses Partial-Birth Abortions to Sell Baby Parts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=434&v=jjxwVuozMnU

Planned Parenthood president caught haggling to get the best profit selling organs from aborted babies

Planned Parenthoodbaby partsabortions
http://www.naturalnews.com/050524_Planned_Parenthood_baby_parts_abortions.html

Planned Parenthood and the business of killing babies
Posted on July 24, 2015Ben Crystal
http://personalliberty.com/planned-parenthood-and-the-business-of-killing-babies/
This entry was posted in Featured and tagged Planned Parenthood. Bookmark the permalink.


Is it OK?
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But in the mean time, I am of the opinion that Christians would be wise to avoid this transplant thing. God can preserve our lives or return them to us in the resurrection. We just need to have faith/trust. But I believe a good consideration of my article on Blood, Fat, & Atonement article on rules from the Mosaic law is very important in making a determination on this one as well. But really, "by their fruits you will know them" means that we should be able to see why God would likely frown on transplants. Look at the morbid fruits we are already beginning to see. How much worse does it have to get?

But I know there are many who will try to justify it by pointing out that lives are saved. Wrong! They are prolonged but not saved. Only God can save and preserve forever. And consider that eating a mere piece of fruit forbidden by God condemned all of us to death and being out of control. God can pick any thing and attach whatever symbolism He wants to it. A tree, a piece of fruit or whatever. And He has attached enormous symbolism to blood as well. That being the case, it is difficult to contemplate saving a life by violating God's law.

Can I prostitute myself in order to save my life? Not that I know of. Why did so many Christians get executed by Rome? Because they refused to compromise to save their lives. Are we such a bunch of pussies now that we would not consider death over compromise? That is what God requires! If we can not do that, maybe we should not be considering Christianity as our religion. Maybe you should find a more relaxed religion to practice. Of course, you can forget about eternal life, but the choice is yours.

Obey God, even to the point of death and live forever after a relatively short wait, or accept a few more months or years of life now and that will be it as death, when it finally comes, and it will come, will be permanent. As for me, I'll take the temporary death and remain faithful to God, as I have complete confidence in Him, that He can and will bring me back after all things have been accomplished in bringing this miserable world to a conclusion.


More Tid-Bits from around
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http://www.naturalnews.com/034229_science_cyborgs.html         Nov. 23, 2011
>
"Your government-approved, Medicare-funded transplant will be handled by one of the top U.S. hospitals, which are, even today, deeply engaged in black market organ trafficking and illegal transplantations."< End quote >


Truth1: It speaks for itself!
And why do they do it? They do it for the money, of course, and lots of it. Fantastic sums of money. It corrupts all things.
Still want that transplant now? Still think its OK? Do you still have a conscience?  

-------------------------------

>>Note the following points out nearly everything I did  .  .  .  except that I 1st warned about this in April of 2001. I updated in 2008, 2009, and a couple additions from Mike Adams in 2011, 2012, and now 2013. You will often find Truth1 right out there at the head of the pack. I know, I know, I am so modest ;-)      I saw this coming long before it became a scandal. A true investigative reporter has to be able to see ahead and predict, rather than just wait for it to fall in his lap. God was able to prophesy, and that starting 6,000 years ago and as little as 2,000 years ago. Those who grasp prophecy are apt to foresee changes that were forecast long ago. This next article is powerful and revealing, and perhaps is the best report to date; yes, even better than mine  .  .  .  maybe ;-)  Enjoy! <<

Horror as patient wakes up in NY hospital with doctors trying to harvest her organs for transplant profits
Thursday, July 11, 2013        by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger

http://www.naturalnews.com/041152_transplant_patients_organ_harvesting_presumed_consent.html

(NaturalNews) I've warned Natural News readers about this several times over the last decade: Do NOT become an organ donor! Although you may wish to help others out of the goodness of your (literal) heart, the sinister truth is that doctors routinely harvest organs from LIVING patients right here in the USA.

And here's yet more proof. This true story will astound you.

Waking up on the organ harvesting table...

A woman named Colleen Burns recently opened her eyes to find herself on an operating table in a hospital in Syracuse, NY. Looking around, she noticed that she was the subject of the operation. It turns out doctors were about to harvest her organs and send them to other waiting surgeons who would transplant them into other patients.

This isn't fiction. It was covered by ABC News and several other news sources. It really happened.

And how did it happen? Doctors falsely pronounced her dead by fraudulently claiming she had suffered "cardiopulmonary arrest" and "irreversible brain damage." This gave them the medical justification to start slicing away even while the woman's heart was still beating.

This is a big "holy crap I didn't know that" fact about organ donations: Doctors don't wait until you're really dead. At least not by any normal definition of "dead."

See, you and I think "dead" means your heart isn't beating, your brain isn't functioning, and you're lifeless. But hospitals -- which happen to generate huge profits from the trade of transplant organs -- have a strong financial incentive to declare you "medically dead" long before you're actually lifeless.

They can, in fact, declare you "dead" even when your heart is still beating and you still have brain activity. And they often do. This is how a lot of the organ harvesting in America actually gets done: patients that are on the verge of death (but not yet actually dead) are simply "declared" dead, then their organs are quickly removed, killing them for good.

It's a crime that takes place every day in America, where U.S. hospitals have been caught over and over again engaging in black market organ trafficking.

Read: U.S. Hospitals Secretly Promote Black Market Trading of Harvested Organs for Transplants

A multi-billion-dollar industry

Organ trafficking is a multi-billion-dollar industry. Wealthy people around the world are always in need of new kidneys, new livers, new hearts and other body parts.

And guess who makes the money on all these organ transplants? The doctors, hospitals and drug companies, of course. Organ transplants are a hugely profitable industry -- largely because they get the organs for free. Patients who are killed by these doctors are never paid for their organs. The fact that they "donate" them actually means they are donating their immensely valuable organs to a for-profit system that's going to earn potentially millions of dollars off the organs of a single donor.

So while the donor patient gets murdered for his or her organs, the doctors engaged in organ removal and organ transplants get wealthy. Transplant recipients and health insurance companies pay huge dollars for organ transplant surgeries, and the profits are ongoing because transplant recipients must also pay for a long course of organ transplant anti-rejection drugs, all priced at monopoly prices (of course).

Truth be told, the organ transplant industry is all about money -- at any cost. It's about killing patients who might otherwise survive in order to take their organs and make millions of dollars transplanting them into other patients... patients who typically only have a few months to live even after the transplant.

Read: Global organ harvesting a booming black market business; a kidney harvested every hour.

Transplanted organs are often damaged or infested with disease

Here's another dirty little trick the organ transplant industry will never tell you: The organs that are transplanted into other patients are often fatally damaged and full of infectious diseases.

As yet more proof of this, take the case of Colleen Burns, mentioned above. She tried to commit suicide by taking a toxic combination of prescription medications. According to the doctors, this toxic cocktail of chemicals was fatal, and it killed her (they pronounced her dead).

Yet, simultaneously, they still insisted her organs were healthy enough to transplant into another patient! That's why they almost began harvesting them.

In other words, even organs that doctors know are heavily damaged with toxic chemical cocktails will still be transplanted into other patients! (This is 100% true.)

But it's even worse than that...

Transplant organs often riddled with disease: hepatitis, stealth viruses, mad cow disease and more

There are effectively zero quality standards in the organ transplant industry. If the organ still functions at any level, it's "good enough" to be slapped into a transplant patient even though that organ might actually kill them.

One of the reasons organ transplant patients often die so quickly after receiving transplants is because the organs they often receive are ticking time bombs of disease.

Introducing a diseased heart or kidney into someone's body, for example, can suddenly infest that person with hundreds or even thousands of viruses and blood-borne illnesses that quickly overcome their weakened immune systems. This is made even worse by the anti-rejection drugs which, by definition, cause extreme suppression of immune function.

So at the exact time that new diseases are being introduced into the transplant recipient's body, their immune system is being undermined by anti-rejection drugs. Not surprisingly, this is a recipe for disaster, and that's one reason why so many patients die so quickly after receiving "donor" organs.

Iraq war veteran killed by cancer-ridden transplant lungs

As an example of what I just described above, in 2009, an Iraq war veteran named Matthew Millington was given a lung transplant using lungs that were riddled with a fast-growing cancer.

Not surprisingly, he died less than 10 months later. Did all the organ transplant doctors and surgeons give him a refund for their botched procedure? Of course not! Organ transplants do not come with warranties, and you're often given a diseased, damaged or heavily infested organ that's going to kill you. (But you still gotta pay up!)

There are roughly 100,000 people waiting for organ transplants in the USA right now. But there are only a fraction of that number of organs available in any given year, so doctors are under intense pressure to 1) harvest organs from people who aren't yet dead, and 2) use ANY organs they can find, even organs that are riddled with disease.

Again, these are the dirty little secrets of the organ transplant industry that you'll never be told by any doctor. Expect to hear nothing but denials if you ask organ transplant doctors about any of this.

More healthy organ donors "need to suddenly die"

The other challenge the transplant industry faces is that healthy people who take care of their organs through nutrition and exercise simply don't tend to die very often. The kind of people most likely to die (and therefore most like to donate organs) are alcoholics, drug addicts and people who are obese and diseased. Therefore, those are the kind of organs that end up being available for transplant: nasty "fatty" livers and cancerous lungs, for example.

Ideally, the organ transplant industry would like to see a lot of young, healthy people getting decapitated in military training exercises or automobile accidents. That would supply a fresh supply of healthy organs that might actually be worth transplanting. In China, of course, this is why Falun Gong members are routinely arrested and imprisoned: they eat super-healthy diets and so have high-grade organs that can be profitably harvested from political prisoners there.

The practice of arresting people, imprisoning them and sometimes even murdering them for their organs is a lot more widespread than you think. How do you suppose Steve Jobs got a new liver so quickly, even while thousands of other people were waiting for one? He bought it. Gee, do you really think Steve Jobs stood in line like everyone else and then magically a liver appeared for him much faster than for anyone else?

Presumed consent

There is a push under way around the world to harvest organs from everyone who doesn't explicitly say no. These laws are called "presumed consent" laws, and they exist only to provide a fresh supply of human organs to generate billions of dollars in profits for the sick, criminal-minded organ transplant industry.

As a 2011 article in the British Medical Journal explains, these "presumed consent" laws mean doctors can start harvesting the organs of your wife, your children or other loved ones without even asking family members for permission!

As the BMJ article explains:

Presumed consent is alternatively known as an 'opt-out' system and means that unless the deceased has expressed a wish in life not to be an organ donor then consent will be assumed. This can be divided into what is known as a 'hard opt-out' where the family are not consulted.

There's even a website about this -- PresumedConsent.org -- which uses a lot of flowery language and feel-good imagery to hide the fact that it's pushing for doctors to pronounce more patients "dead" and take their organs so that the organ transplant industry can make a few billion more dollars each year.

What we're talking about here is coercive organ harvesting in order to feed the organ trafficking and transplant industries.

Think about that the next time some clueless paper-pusher asks you at the DMV, "Do you want to be an organ donor?"

Just answer: "No thanks. I prefer that doctors actually try to keep me alive."

Don't give doctors any incentive to kill you. They already kill enough patients even when they aren't trying.

Trust me on this: say NO to organ donation. If you really want to help people, teach them to protect the organs God already gave them through superfoods, nutrition, exercise and healthy living.

Read more:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3363073/
http://www.naturalnews.com/028497_organ_transplants_kidneys.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/028994_organ_transplants_black_market.html


A Real Scary Story         (for Halloween-Oct. 31, 2013)
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http://www.naturalnews.com/042731_human_smuggling_organ_harvesting_United_Kingdom.html  article begins below:

Confirmed: Girl smuggled into UK to have her organs harvested for wealthy recipients
Thursday, October 31, 2013 by: J. D. Heyes
Tags: human smuggling, organ harvesting, United Kingdom

(NaturalNews) There's a new kind of human trafficking taking place, and it has nothing to do with the Triangle Trade and slavery during the Colonial Era of American History. But it is every bit as sinister.

Authorities in Great Britain have confirmed for the first time that a young girl was smuggled into the country specifically so her organs could be harvested and sold to wealthy recipients.

As reported by The Telegraph:
The unnamed girl was brought to the UK from Somalia with the intention of removing her organs and selling them on to those desperate for a transplant.
Child protection charities warned that the case was unlikely to be an isolated incident as traffickers were likely to have smuggled a group of children into the country.


>> Do you see how evil this entire business has become? Life means nothing now. Humans are just things to be harvested and their lives ended. Great wealth brings great power without any limits or restraints at all. God would never have allowed this, had it been possible in 1500 BC. But He knew it would happen eventually, and now that it does, it is a sign to us that we have reached a point of no limits on anything and everything. There is no limit to what we will do, when there is no one to make us account for ourselves. This is the world and people we have become.

God now has what He needs to prove His point. Disobey even the slightest command, such as eating from a tree forbidden to eat from, and eventually, the world ends up in total madness void of any decency whatsoever. Jehovah could now pull the plug and be fully justified. But He and the devil have just a few more things to work out, as per their agreement of about 6000 years ago. The article continues:<<

Trafficking is increasing

The horrific case came to light via a government report that showed the number of human trafficking victims in the United Kingdom has risen more than 50 percent from last year, and has now reached record levels.

In all, 371 children were exploited in various ways, with the majority being used as slaves - for sex and otherwise.

The government's report said 95 children came from Vietnam, 67 from Nigeria and 25 from China. More children were smuggled in from Romania and Bangladesh, among other countries.

"The figures also detail how 20 British girls have been victims of human trafficking," the paper said. "It comes after a series of court cases in which British girls were raped and exploited by gangs of Asian men."

British child protection charities have warned that criminal gangs are trying to exploit the demand for organ transplants in the country.

"Traffickers are exploiting the demand for organs and the vulnerability of children. It's unlikely that a trafficker is going to take this risk and bring just one child into the UK. It is likely there was a group," said Bharti Patel, chief executive of ECPAT UK, a child protection charity.

The World Health Organization says up to 7,000 kidneys are obtained illicitly every year all around the world by traffickers.

And while a black market exists for other organs - hearts, lungs, livers - kidneys are the most sought-after, because one can be removed from a patient without them suffering many ill effects (unless, of course, later in life their one remaining kidney should become injured or fail).

Britain to stiffen penalties for slave traders and organ traffickers

The government's report also notes a rise in the number of adults trafficked to the UK; the number of women rose by 12 percent to 786 and the number of men by almost one-third to around 400. The latter figure includes growing numbers of British men who are being exploited for "paving or ground works" in the UK or abroad.

Details about the scope of the human trafficking phenomenon in Britain were published as the government in London announced plans to maximize prison sentences for modern-day slave traders.

"Under the proposals, offenders who already have a conviction for a serious sexual or violent offence will receive an automatic life sentence. The current maximum custodial sentence for trafficking is 14 years," the Telegraph reported.

Says James Brokenshire, crime and security minister: "Modern slavery is an appalling evil in our midst."

He added: "All this is a good start, but we need everyone to play a part - government, law enforcement, business, charities - if we are to consign slavery to the history books where it belongs."

>> You know, the real irony here is that Britain was opposed to slavery during the USA Civil War, though she did supply the South with shipping at times. but Britain today uses slaves for all sorts of things. Not that this is new or recent. Servants of an European Manor were property and females in particular were expected to perform sexually, not only to the Lord of the Manor, but to guests as well, if asked. And there really was no age limit (of youth) for sexual services, either.

Also note that while penalties of the law, ever so minor, really, apply only to traffickers, but to those who hire the services of "slaves" or those who receive victims' organs. The death penalty sounds right to me. We pretend to be such a great evolved world, but it is evident from the every growing problems of horrendous slavery and trafficking, that while we pretend to be nice and care, our world gets much worse, not any better.

It is the insincerity of those in power that is the problem. They say they care but it is they who look the other way while the rich feed on us, like wolves devour sheep. We are nearing the climax of our iniquity and soon the world will be made to answer to God for their evil. Make no mistake about that!

A special thanks to Health Ranger Mike Adams (this come from his site) for his courage and decency to report things like this, which stray only a little from his typical health reports. He is the only one I find reporting on stuff like this for the most part. And my flesh getting the best of me, I started reporting on this sinister stuff in 2001, long before most had even thought about it.<<

-------------------------

Human organ harvesting is the second most profitable illegal trade in the world after drug smuggling. [The grim trade is on the rise in Africa, with most of the victims from Sudan and Eritrea. Many victims are voluntarily trading their organs for passage to Europe.] PressTV 2014 Dec 24
http://www.realityzone.com    Dec. 26, 2014, Friday.

Illegal Organ Trade On The Rise In Africa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVX4DcgJzw0

Illegal Kidney Trafficking A Growing Problem In Nepal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjpxX9tRjvY

National Geographic - Inside The Body Trade Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeIdGgE5Qs8

Abduction and Murder of U.S. Children for Organs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLtlLljwfUw


Homeless Killed for Organs
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Popular talk show host claims homeless people are being murdered for their organs

http://www.naturalnews.com/054969_homeless_people_organ_harvesting_FEMA_camps.html

(NaturalNews) It is a story that seems too horrific to be true, but a popular Alabama talk show host who is investigating it says there may be something to it: Homeless people are being victimized by a government agency that is removing them from city streets all over the country and depriving them of their organs.

In an interview with Dave Hodges of The Common Sense Show, Josh Coy, himself a host on WYDE, the largest station in Alabama covering a four-state region, said that the story begins with laws that are spreading around the country forbidding anyone from feeding homeless people.

Elected officials began implementing such local ordinances as a way to discourage the homeless from settling in their cities, which they feel would hurt business growth and upset residents. But it seems there is something more sinister going on.

Coy says that as he began looking into the story, he discovered that homeless people were "literally disappearing" overnight in some cities, as in, they were there one day, gone the next and no one knew why or where the missing person had gone. But he said few others were asking questions about the strange disappearances because of what he says is a cultural bias against homeless people.

Is a government agency behind all of this?

Coy noted that most Americans seem to have a misconception about the homeless that they are sans homes because they are drunks or substance abusers, which is one of the main reasons few questions were being asked when a homeless person vanished. But that's not true, he said; the majority of homeless are veterans and others who simply got down on their luck due to job losses and the bad economy. That's also why, he said, the numbers of homeless have been increasing.

"So that's what led me down the path" to pursue the story, Coy said.

As he began investigating, the Alabama talk radio host says he discovered that literally thousands of people over the past five years or so had gone missing, but that the "story surrounding their disappearance(s) is the creepiest part."

Coy said that as he dug, he began to find what he believes is a common denominator in the disappearances: The Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA.

The agency, Coy said, has been working under the radar to set up random "soup kitchens" and other areas to feed homeless people, even when it contravenes local ordinances prohibiting such activity. The day after the feeding location is set up, strange unmarked vans show up with people wearing blue jumpsuits who talk with the homeless, and the next thing anyone knows, some of them go missing.

While Coy said the people were wearing unmarked jumpsuits, he said they were of a type that FEMA workers generally wear.

Hodges, the interviewer, noted that there could be a couple of things going on. One that he suggested was that the homeless may be abducted and then taken to facilities where some of their organs are harvested, like China has done with scores of its prisoners. Hodges also said it is possible that the homeless are being taken to existing FEMA camps where they are used for internment training purposes for government personnel.

On that latter point, Coy agreed, stating that Hodges' theory on that was a prevailing one.

Homeless person says the same thing

For his part, Hodges referenced a U.S. Army field training manual: paragraph "N" of FM 3-39.4, dated February 2010 and titled, "Internment and Resettlement Operations." That manual, he said, is the blueprint for how U.S. Army and other personnel would take in massive amounts of civilians and then either keep them as prisoners or move them to other locations.

Both believe that such camps and the homeless in them may also be part of U.S. training of foreign troops who would eventually be placed in charge of them.

A Natural News search online for "homeless people disappearing" turned up a slew of stories in the alternative media, most of them reiterating the theory Coy and Hodges made about the FEMA camps.

But there was also this: An archived Reddit post from about a year ago, allegedly written by a homeless person, who said definitely that the homeless are disappearing.

Listen to the entire Hodges and Coy interview here.

Sources for this story include:      YouTube.com           NaturalNews.com          Science.NaturalNews.com

Info.PublicIntelligence.net[PD

 


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